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SARM S4

This is a discussion on SARM S4 within the Anabolic Steroids, HGH, Peptides forums, part of the Performance Enhancement category; Cliffs: -You're not going to be able to get a hold of real Sarm S4 -It's side to benefit profile ...

  1. #51
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    Cliffs:
    -You're not going to be able to get a hold of real Sarm S4
    -It's side to benefit profile sucks and it should not be used on cycle or in PCT
    -hCG directly mimics and suppresses LH
    -You should be running test with EVERY cycle
    -You're researching a lot, but you're taking the concepts you read as fact...you need to take everything you read and form your own understanding of it. As you read more you'll see that many opinions and claims taken from a single source can easily be challenged and debunked based on your understanding from research and experience.

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    I want to run test but not much, everyone will attack me for it I know. I picked hormones that were hair friendly, test may annihilate it so thats why I only want to run 250mg if any. Since I cant get a definitive answer with moderate to low dose test than I just want to skip using it all together until I see someone log 250mg test cyp. I know hcg hurts to some degree and hurts LH thats why I only wanted to use it on cycle if my prohormone/designer cycle extended to 10 or more weeks. I will keep researching, I try not to take everything I read as fact, I figured SARMS S4 sucked by now since not one person on here has claimed to like there use
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman88 View Post
    Cliffs:
    -You're not going to be able to get a hold of real Sarm S4
    -It's side to benefit profile sucks and it should not be used on cycle or in PCT
    -hCG directly mimics and suppresses LH
    -You should be running test with EVERY cycle
    -You're researching a lot, but you're taking the concepts you read as fact...you need to take everything you read and form your own understanding of it. As you read more you'll see that many opinions and claims taken from a single source can easily be challenged and debunked based on your understanding from research and experience.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    I mean this, the general conscensus is that it increases labido, and helps with recomp and most of all enerygy.
    H drol gives lethargy so it may counteract it, help with labido and add to suppression but given that hdrol is mild maybe the suppression is moderate? especially with moderate doses. I have a cycle idea, I do not want to run it or any cycle for a while but was wondering if sarms could take the cycle to the next level without adding more bad effects.

    Get a good recomp cycle 6 to 8 pounds would be the goal without using the real deal.
    Since SARMS S4 users say it leans them out and improves, energy,mood and sex drive it seems like a decent addition.

    cycle hdrol 60/100/100/100/100/100
    Dermacrine- max dose 1-6 or weeks 3-7 or 8
    Sarms 1-6 or 8 at 50 mg
    11 0x0-675 4-10
    It may stem the sides. You may also go blind. You may also get another side effect that nobody realizes is around yet. Who knows.

    Also, keep this in mind: You dont feel like shit because in theory it doesnt suppress testosterone to the same degree a hormone would. Now, toss in a steroid with the SARM and your test is now suppressed... who knows what side effects may unleash.

    Think of it this way: test cycle with 100mg anadrol and 500/week deca.... vs just 100mg anadrol and 500/week deca. One, you have test, and the sides arent too aweful... the other, your test is suppressed and theres none coming in, and the side effects are horrific.

    More isnt usually better.
    a lot of little things does not equal one big thing.
    a bunch of good things dont equal a good thing, always.
    a bunch of good things almost never equals a better thing.

    Good luck.

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    For sure, its been pounded in my head lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
    this makes the most sense to me. they seem like a lot of money for very little output...

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    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    I want to run test but not much, everyone will attack me for it I know. I picked hormones that were hair friendly, test may annihilate it so thats why I only want to run 250mg if any. Since I cant get a definitive answer with moderate to low dose test than I just want to skip using it all together until I see someone log 250mg test cyp. I know hcg hurts to some degree and hurts LH thats why I only wanted to use it on cycle if my prohormone/designer cycle extended to 10 or more weeks. I will keep researching, I try not to take everything I read as fact, I figured SARMS S4 sucked by now since not one person on here has claimed to like there use
    Thats fine. 250mg wont cause baldness any faster than you already had it coming.

    Log? You want to see a log before you do it? And youre instead going to use a SARM? You want to use a SARM just to counter the sides of suppressed testosterone, and you dont trust TESTOSTERONE to do this? Come on man, use your head. Nothing replaces testosterone as well as testosterone. Replacing test with equal amounts of test will not increase hair loss.

    your main concern is countering sides of long oral cycles. testosterone will do this. nothing else. dont worry about gains from it if youre countering sides. youre leaning on the orals for this. still think its all a poor idea.
    Last edited by Warrior; 10-26-2010 at 02:36 PM.

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    Yeah i will add some cardio but work my way up, weight goes down to fast for me when I do a lot of cardio.My abs are present at the top and middle even at 14 percent bodyfat. I did post my new diet and perhaps on cycle diet in this thread. I think its sufficient for fat loss, I stole it from unreal machine on anabolic minds which I know is not the most reputable forum but the man has the best vascullarity of any bodybuilder I have seen on a forum
    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    i didnt necessarily mean that youd be doing that while on cycle. just using that as an example of what does 11oxo's job better than 11oxo.

    but stims on cycle isnt always a bad thing, your reaction to them is whats going to determine that. if you can use moderate doses of stimulants without driving your blood pressure through the roof you'll be fine. you just need to monitor these things when doing it.



    i see what youre saying but for 99% of the population, bodyfat is going to dictate the look and visibility of your abs. i know for me, i could do 3 hours of abs a day but without restricting certain calories and doing some cardio, no one would ever know.

    its also a good idea to be doing cardio for cardio sake. steroid users especially.

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    I get what your saying except the last sentence I do not think sarms would compare to 250mg of test, I imagine 250mg of test would well out perform it. Wont the test give a little more water and therrefore more strength. My doc told me that if my test were about 30-40 points lower he would have given me trt. So if Im taking 200-250 a week and my levels double that wont contribute to any level of added anabolism?

    I know this is redundant just want it broken down.

    last question so in your opinion if I did 400-500mg of test cyp on cycle I wont loose any more hair than 200-250mg?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    coming from someone who's used 11oxo, its anabolic effect is almost non-existent. in terms of what it does best (cortisol suppression/cutting), there is something that does it better...caffeine, cardio, and diet. not worth the cost imo.
    ^this
    and if you want to cut. get your diet fuckin right. test is a good fat burner by itself. im recomping right now. have leaned out and gained a good amount of weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    zane also has arguable the best genetics in the history of bodybuilding. the guy would look like that no matter what he did. he's 70 years old now and still has a nasty v-taper.

    i dont know OP, i think youre over-thinking a lot of this stuff. just run hdrol/nolva and use the rest of your energy to perfect your training.
    ^this. i think you're spending more time reading than training and working on your meal plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    I get what your saying except the last sentence I do not think sarms would compare to 250mg of test, I imagine 250mg of test would well out perform it. Wont the test give a little more water and therrefore more strength. My doc told me that if my test were about 30-40 points lower he would have given me trt. So if Im taking 200-250 a week and my levels double that wont contribute to any level of added anabolism?

    I know this is redundant just want it broken down.

    last question so in your opinion if I did 400-500mg of test cyp on cycle I wont loose any more hair than 200-250mg?
    The water doesnt relate to the strength. the best strength compounds of all time eliminate water. 250mg doesnt necessarily equate to the same amount of ng/dl testosterone for everyone. Also, its impossible to predict what your stable levels would be... and no, if your test levels were 500 ng/dl instead of 250 ng/dl (not the amount you pin, your actual test results) you wouldnt have much added anabolism. I think I've seen cycles of 500mg bring people up to the 3000 ng/dl range, could be wrong though.

    nobody can promise you wont lose your hair. roids wont burn your fat, diet will, IM FUCKING SERIOUS. SERIOUS. NOTHING. THERE IS NO MAGIC PILL. FORGET IT. NOW. You're wasting your time and putting in hard work trying to not work instead of just working. I'm not talking you out of it, I'm saving you your money. If you're bordering on TRT, you shouldn't be cycling anything or you WILL speed up your existing problems. hair loss should be the last thing on your mind. It is also possible that you are close to TRT levels of testosterone due to being really fat. I wouldnt doubt this. And still, roids wont help you.

    Most doctors advise that TRT will help you lean up. There are a few reasons:
    1) They want to encourage you to get healthy
    2) extremely low testosterone levels cause you to hold fat more prominently and in certain areas. Normalizing testosterone will normalize this, but wont make an obese person any less obese.
    Last edited by Warrior; 10-26-2010 at 02:55 PM.

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    14 percent is not really fat. many pros go over that in the off season
    Quote Originally Posted by warrior504th View Post
    The water doesnt relate to the strength. the best strength compounds of all time eliminate water. 250mg doesnt necessarily equate to the same amount of ng/dl testosterone for everyone. Also, its impossible to predict what your stable levels would be... and no, if your test levels were 500 ng/dl instead of 250 ng/dl (not the amount you pin, your actual test results) you wouldnt have much added anabolism. I think I've seen cycles of 500mg bring people up to the 3000 ng/dl range, could be wrong though.

    nobody can promise you wont lose your hair. roids wont burn your fat, diet will, IM FUCKING SERIOUS. SERIOUS. NOTHING. THERE IS NO MAGIC PILL. FORGET IT. NOW. You're wasting your time and putting in hard work trying to not work instead of just working. I'm not talking you out of it, I'm saving you your money. If you're bordering on TRT, you shouldn't be cycling anything or you WILL speed up your existing problems. hair loss should be the last thing on your mind. It is also possible that you are close to TRT levels of testosterone due to being really fat. I wouldnt doubt this. And still, roids wont help you.

    Most doctors advise that TRT will help you lean up. There are a few reasons:
    1) They want to encourage you to get healthy
    2) extremely low testosterone levels cause you to hold fat more prominently and in certain areas. Normalizing testosterone will normalize this, but wont make an obese person any less obese.

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    my diet is pretty on, i can get down to 9 percent which was my last cut weight at 168, a year since than I have increased to 180-183 small fluctuations daily at 14 percent I dont think thats bad
    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    14 percent is not really fat. many pros go over that in the off season

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    I just want to get back down to 9 percent and hold as much of my current weight so I can lean bulk the rest of the year than recomp on cycle again.
    Quote Originally Posted by warrior504th View Post
    The water doesnt relate to the strength. the best strength compounds of all time eliminate water. 250mg doesnt necessarily equate to the same amount of ng/dl testosterone for everyone. Also, its impossible to predict what your stable levels would be... and no, if your test levels were 500 ng/dl instead of 250 ng/dl (not the amount you pin, your actual test results) you wouldnt have much added anabolism. I think I've seen cycles of 500mg bring people up to the 3000 ng/dl range, could be wrong though.

    nobody can promise you wont lose your hair. roids wont burn your fat, diet will, IM FUCKING SERIOUS. SERIOUS. NOTHING. THERE IS NO MAGIC PILL. FORGET IT. NOW. You're wasting your time and putting in hard work trying to not work instead of just working. I'm not talking you out of it, I'm saving you your money. If you're bordering on TRT, you shouldn't be cycling anything or you WILL speed up your existing problems. hair loss should be the last thing on your mind. It is also possible that you are close to TRT levels of testosterone due to being really fat. I wouldnt doubt this. And still, roids wont help you.

    Most doctors advise that TRT will help you lean up. There are a few reasons:
    1) They want to encourage you to get healthy
    2) extremely low testosterone levels cause you to hold fat more prominently and in certain areas. Normalizing testosterone will normalize this, but wont make an obese person any less obese.

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    I go to the gym as much as before I started reading about aas,training and nutrition. In fact I probably overtrain since recovery has been sucking since I switched to hct12
    Quote Originally Posted by TitanCT View Post
    ^this
    and if you want to cut. get your diet fuckin right. test is a good fat burner by itself. im recomping right now. have leaned out and gained a good amount of weight.



    ^this. i think you're spending more time reading than training and working on your meal plan.

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    So the water added from dianabol does not contribute to the strenghth gains
    Quote Originally Posted by warrior504th View Post
    The water doesnt relate to the strength. the best strength compounds of all time eliminate water. 250mg doesnt necessarily equate to the same amount of ng/dl testosterone for everyone. Also, its impossible to predict what your stable levels would be... and no, if your test levels were 500 ng/dl instead of 250 ng/dl (not the amount you pin, your actual test results) you wouldnt have much added anabolism. I think I've seen cycles of 500mg bring people up to the 3000 ng/dl range, could be wrong though.

    nobody can promise you wont lose your hair. roids wont burn your fat, diet will, IM FUCKING SERIOUS. SERIOUS. NOTHING. THERE IS NO MAGIC PILL. FORGET IT. NOW. You're wasting your time and putting in hard work trying to not work instead of just working. I'm not talking you out of it, I'm saving you your money. If you're bordering on TRT, you shouldn't be cycling anything or you WILL speed up your existing problems. hair loss should be the last thing on your mind. It is also possible that you are close to TRT levels of testosterone due to being really fat. I wouldnt doubt this. And still, roids wont help you.

    Most doctors advise that TRT will help you lean up. There are a few reasons:
    1) They want to encourage you to get healthy
    2) extremely low testosterone levels cause you to hold fat more prominently and in certain areas. Normalizing testosterone will normalize this, but wont make an obese person any less obese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    I just want to get back down to 9 percent and hold as much of my current weight so I can lean bulk the rest of the year than recomp on cycle again.

    if this is your immediate goal im really not sure why youre looking at a steroid cycle to begin with. decreasing your body fat by 5% is going to require a calorie restricted diet and cardio. no androgens on their own will do this. if you wanted to run the hdrol while you cut to help maintain the mass you already have, thats fine. a lot of people do this. but keep in mind that dropping body fat by 5% and making muscle gains do not even belong in the same sentence.

    i think youre doing this completely backwards to be honest. what you should do is forget about the cycle right now and focus on getting your bodyfat down to where you want it. then, when youre ready to lean bulk, use the steroids to do what theyre intended to do (build muscle) and help keep your bodyfat in check while you do so.

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    Thats why I wanted to use albuterol on the cycle and it suposedly can help the lipid profile which designers can alter plus its an anabolic. Albuterol alone could help you loose 1-2 percent on a recomp so adding steroids could only help, maybe im wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    if this is your immediate goal im really not sure why youre looking at a steroid cycle to begin with. decreasing your body fat by 5% is going to require a calorie restricted diet and cardio. no androgens on their own will do this. if you wanted to run the hdrol while you cut to help maintain the mass you already have, thats fine. a lot of people do this. but keep in mind that dropping body fat by 5% and making muscle gains do not even belong in the same sentence.

    i think youre doing this completely backwards to be honest. what you should do is forget about the cycle right now and focus on getting your bodyfat down to where you want it. then, when youre ready to lean bulk, use the steroids to do what theyre intended to do (build muscle) and help keep your bodyfat in check while you do so.

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    I also tend to notice that h drol seems to die out in the last week and do nothing in the first week, so why not cut calories majorly on these weeks or do all keto those weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    if this is your immediate goal im really not sure why youre looking at a steroid cycle to begin with. decreasing your body fat by 5% is going to require a calorie restricted diet and cardio. no androgens on their own will do this. if you wanted to run the hdrol while you cut to help maintain the mass you already have, thats fine. a lot of people do this. but keep in mind that dropping body fat by 5% and making muscle gains do not even belong in the same sentence.

    i think youre doing this completely backwards to be honest. what you should do is forget about the cycle right now and focus on getting your bodyfat down to where you want it. then, when youre ready to lean bulk, use the steroids to do what theyre intended to do (build muscle) and help keep your bodyfat in check while you do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    muscle is muscle. what youre calling a "a puffy appearance" is water retention. imo, there is something called "muscle maturity" but it has nothing to do with any steroids, nor can it be achieved with steroids. mature muscle is whats built after years of consistent training and is part of your muscle memory. all youre talking about is bloat and bodyfat %. a guy who does a dbol cycle is going to look a lot more "puffy" than a guy who does a var cycle, who will look dry and hard.



    no offense but this is the weirdest logic ive ever heard. your road to a tight waist is to overtrain abs until youve reached a point of diminishing returns? doing light abs and cardio will take you to the same place. also, thats not how those guys got a big v-taper. they didnt use GH.



    coming from someone who's used 11oxo, its anabolic effect is almost non-existent. in terms of what it does best (cortisol suppression/cutting), there is something that does it better...caffeine, cardio, and diet. not worth the cost imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    if this is your immediate goal im really not sure why youre looking at a steroid cycle to begin with. decreasing your body fat by 5% is going to require a calorie restricted diet and cardio. no androgens on their own will do this. if you wanted to run the hdrol while you cut to help maintain the mass you already have, thats fine. a lot of people do this. but keep in mind that dropping body fat by 5% and making muscle gains do not even belong in the same sentence.

    i think youre doing this completely backwards to be honest. what you should do is forget about the cycle right now and focus on getting your bodyfat down to where you want it. then, when youre ready to lean bulk, use the steroids to do what theyre intended to do (build muscle) and help keep your bodyfat in check while you do so.

    eh, i know guys that show prep on something like a test, tren, eq stack using diuretics and things. most competitors are rarely ever off so they do everything while on. jsut throwing that into the mix with ya HC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    Thats why I wanted to use albuterol on the cycle and it suposedly can help the lipid profile which designers can alter plus its an anabolic. Albuterol alone could help you loose 1-2 percent on a recomp so adding steroids could only help, maybe im wrong
    merely being anabolic does not always mean a noticeable effect on muscle growth. again, i think youre making this way too complicated. maybe im confused on what you mean by "recomp" as most peoples definition of this make absolutely no sense. overall, it sounds like youre putting too much reliance in chemicals when theyre just a small, and often unnecessary, piece of the puzzle.

    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    I also tend to notice that h drol seems to die out in the last week and do nothing in the first week, so why not cut calories majorly on these weeks or do all keto those weeks.
    how many times have you run hdrol? ive never heard or seen this. and again, too complicated with the keto thing. youd be better off picking a diet and sticking with it. trying to time all this stuff out is going to take so much effort with little to no benefit over doing something more simple but consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by TitanCT View Post
    eh, i know guys that show prep on something like a test, tren, eq stack using diuretics and things. most competitors are rarely ever off so they do everything while on. jsut throwing that into the mix with ya HC.
    true but thats totally different for numerous reasons.

    1. theyre not trying to drop 5% in a single cycle (which isnt even possible without being on a all out cut and doing a lot of cardio), they do it over a period of time.
    2. i dont see any competitive bb'ers making significant gains during contest prep, aside from ones using massive amounts of drugs.
    3. test/tren/eq w/ diuretics vs. hdrol...apples and oranges.
    Last edited by Holden Caulfield; 10-26-2010 at 04:22 PM.

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    I dont expect albuterol to give me muscle just attack fat and have the h drol preserve muscle. I will switch to a cutting diet if I have to but I still want to keep them as high as possible. And yes hdrol vs test tren like you said apples vs oranges. I have not run h drol period, Im stating that no steroid will work in one week so anyone loading up on cals that first week is just being pointless. weeks 2-4 and some of 5 are where I have noticed people say that the scale went up on recomp or bulk diets. So the weeks I have noted that people report the least positive effects of the drug therefore I think those should be cut diet weeks
    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    merely being anabolic does not always mean a noticeable effect on muscle growth. again, i think youre making this way too complicated. maybe im confused on what you mean by "recomp" as most peoples definition of this make absolutely no sense. overall, it sounds like youre putting too much reliance in chemicals when theyre just a small, and often unnecessary, piece of the puzzle.



    how many times have you run hdrol? ive never heard or seen this. and again, too complicated with the keto thing. youd be better off picking a diet and sticking with it. trying to time all this stuff out is going to take so much effort with little to no benefit over doing something more simple but consistent.



    true but thats totally different for numerous reasons.

    1. theyre not trying to drop 5% in a single cycle (which isnt even possible without being on a all out cut and doing a lot of cardio), they do it over a period of time.
    2. i dont see any competitive bb'ers making significant gains during contest prep, aside from ones using massive amounts of drugs.
    3. test/tren/eq w/ diuretics vs. hdrol...apples and oranges.

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    Your forgetting about looks in general, my plan in training is to make an appearance, example say I do the cycle and get to 11 percent or even 12 percent. If I focus training in a particular way you can look leaner, add in a rediculous tan and you look leaner. If I get my lat width better, abs tighter and skin darker you will look better maybe look like a lower percent body fat than you actually are. Looks are good enough for me. I could get down to 9 percent afterwards with diet and than actually be satisfied. I do overthink things, its a definite personality trait of mine
    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    merely being anabolic does not always mean a noticeable effect on muscle growth. again, i think youre making this way too complicated. maybe im confused on what you mean by "recomp" as most peoples definition of this make absolutely no sense. overall, it sounds like youre putting too much reliance in chemicals when theyre just a small, and often unnecessary, piece of the puzzle.



    how many times have you run hdrol? ive never heard or seen this. and again, too complicated with the keto thing. youd be better off picking a diet and sticking with it. trying to time all this stuff out is going to take so much effort with little to no benefit over doing something more simple but consistent.



    true but thats totally different for numerous reasons.

    1. theyre not trying to drop 5% in a single cycle (which isnt even possible without being on a all out cut and doing a lot of cardio), they do it over a period of time.
    2. i dont see any competitive bb'ers making significant gains during contest prep, aside from ones using massive amounts of drugs.
    3. test/tren/eq w/ diuretics vs. hdrol...apples and oranges.

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    forgot to add shaping training as in calves and forearms, another muscle which I tend to notice if I overtrain they become more diamond shaped, i am satisfied with there size I only want better shaping in them, you add this to the little waist and wide back you can look leaner than you truly are, this is just my opinion.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    merely being anabolic does not always mean a noticeable effect on muscle growth. again, i think youre making this way too complicated. maybe im confused on what you mean by "recomp" as most peoples definition of this make absolutely no sense. overall, it sounds like youre putting too much reliance in chemicals when theyre just a small, and often unnecessary, piece of the puzzle.



    how many times have you run hdrol? ive never heard or seen this. and again, too complicated with the keto thing. youd be better off picking a diet and sticking with it. trying to time all this stuff out is going to take so much effort with little to no benefit over doing something more simple but consistent.



    true but thats totally different for numerous reasons.

    1. theyre not trying to drop 5% in a single cycle (which isnt even possible without being on a all out cut and doing a lot of cardio), they do it over a period of time.
    2. i dont see any competitive bb'ers making significant gains during contest prep, aside from ones using massive amounts of drugs.
    3. test/tren/eq w/ diuretics vs. hdrol...apples and oranges.
    eh im not using massive amounts of drugs and im leaning out and though i started around 238 im now around 255lbs. tho ive leaned out, i havent done much cardio. maybe like lieterally 8 sessions of 20 minutes...
    im good friends with someone who gained 40lbs so far this offseason doesnt do a lot of chemicals really, and still has abs and obliques.


    3. def agree with that point.
    and i see your point. i was more or less jsut doing the "thats not exactly true" thing.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by greekgeorge View Post
    I dont expect albuterol to give me muscle just attack fat and have the h drol preserve muscle. I will switch to a cutting diet if I have to but I still want to keep them as high as possible. And yes hdrol vs test tren like you said apples vs oranges. I have not run h drol period, Im stating that no steroid will work in one week so anyone loading up on cals that first week is just being pointless. weeks 2-4 and some of 5 are where I have noticed people say that the scale went up on recomp or bulk diets. So the weeks I have noted that people report the least positive effects of the drug therefore I think those should be cut diet weeks
    no steroid works in one week? not significantly but they kick in within a few hours. the build up in your system over a few weeks is the big pay off though.

    look. here's your biggest misunderstanding about aas. the workout helps but the diet is always key. steroids in the most basic explanation, just help your body do a better job in handling the food you intake. if you want to cut and grow at the same time, recomp on test. its possible, test is a great fat burner and a decent mass builder. hdrol will work, i loved that shit.

    i honestly think you're relying on the chems to heavily, instead of your nutrition.
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    Fine, I understand diet titan I have gotten down to lower bodyfat on every cutting cycle I have done, getting down to 9 percent bodyfat and putting on size as you said wont happen, but seeing If I were on test at 250mg which is a low dose, would that not be sufficient enough for mild fat loss, I mean 500mg cycles seem to be run by people with different goals than myself, running h drol with 250mg of test wont work as well as 500mg of test in terms of fat loss/recomp affects? I have already begun a recomp diet as well and hope to lookse at least one percent in the next 5-6 weeks pre cycle anyway and I may order albuterol in the mean time for pct or pre cycle
    Quote Originally Posted by TitanCT View Post
    no steroid works in one week? not significantly but they kick in within a few hours. the build up in your system over a few weeks is the big pay off though.

    look. here's your biggest misunderstanding about aas. the workout helps but the diet is always key. steroids in the most basic explanation, just help your body do a better job in handling the food you intake. if you want to cut and grow at the same time, recomp on test. its possible, test is a great fat burner and a decent mass builder. hdrol will work, i loved that shit.

    i honestly think you're relying on the chems to heavily, instead of your nutrition.

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