Originally Posted by smartpowders

But still had contamination issues, just like the 6oxo. He tried to show 1-AD being present in pig shit or something, trying to recall. I was one of the few that put money into the USFA or whatever we called it back then. Not sure the 100k was worth it

I didnt "try to show" it was in pig shit mike. thats insulting

the results were published in a peer reviewed journal and it was found in pork fat

McGregor, S.J. and A.J. Erickson, Identification of 5alpha-androst-1-ene-3beta, 17beta-diol in the fat of Sus scrofa L.: a "nutritional supplement" not found previously in the food supply. J Nat Prod, 2003. 66(9): p. 1147-8

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

DSHEA can be interpreted many different ways. Because the FDA inteprets things one way doesnt mean that industries interpretation is irrelevant. Many court cases have been fought between industry and FDA over law interpretation and many times industry has won

I'm not aware of any real example of a company fighting against a ban of an ingredient and actually winning in court. Who fought and won?

I wasn't trying to insult you on the pig shit comment. I'm drawing off a conversation you and I had 10 years ago. I remember it was from a pig at least . At the end of the day, the government still didn't agree to it being legal, so it didn't really matter. The government just doesn't like you Pat. You need to change your name. Maybe to Bruce?

Originally Posted by smartpowders

I'm not aware of any real example of a company fighting against a ban of an ingredient and actually winning in court. Who fought and won?

I wasn't trying to insult you on the pig shit comment. I'm drawing off a conversation you and I had 10 years ago. I remember it was from a pig at least . At the end of the day, the government still didn't agree to it being legal, so it didn't really matter. The government just doesn't like you Pat. You need to change your name. Maybe to Bruce?

i said companies have gone to court over law interpation with the FDA. Borage oil and is a good example. that company that won was was the one that rented my old lab in seymour from lakhan before i arrived there in 96. or it may have been black currant oil. traco got a nice settlement out of that

and i knew what you were thinking about with the 1-ad. u were confusing 1-ad with ATD and with boldione. both had weak cow shit arguments. 1-ad and 6-oxo OTOH were shown definitively to be present in food. 1-ad was made illegal not because of an DSHEA issue but cuz of controlled substance act. 6-oxo has never been acted against but you and i know that they are looking for one molecule of an illegal substance in there to arrest people on because someone got a stick up their ass about the product

No doubt about that. Meanwhile companies are only selling drugs under their line and they leave them alone, go figure.

Originally Posted by smartpowders

No doubt about that. Meanwhile companies are only selling drugs under their line and they leave them alone, go figure.

i am not sure what the case was with red rice yeast but it contains natural lovastatin, a highly popular cholesterol drug. the FDA said no way. I think a judge somewhere overruled that though and its still available

we have to remember that the FDA is not the judicial system. If they try to enforce something and you believe its not right you can take them to court. Mind you, you better have alot of money and good lawyers and a good case cuz the cards are stacked against you

the whole controlled contamination issue holds no water either as it pertains to the DEA position that "any amount of a controlled substance is a controlled substance".

Hemp oil is sold and it has small amounts of THC. Poppy seeds have morphine in them (people often test positive from eating them even). Even milk has androstenedione in it!!

If their is enough of the controlled substance contamination to pose any significant health effects that is something else. If it is in there at amounts that should have been recognized by reasonable quality control analysis then that is something else too, maybe. If neither of those two things apply then it really is no a prosecutable issue

That doesn't matter. You and I have both been on the end of them coming in and shutting down whatever they want.

Originally Posted by smartpowders

That doesn't matter. You and I have both been on the end of them coming in and shutting down whatever they want.

no one ever came in and shut anything down in our facility per se, unless you count the day they spend rummaging through all your stuff. they did take away alot of stuff, including about 75k worth of 6-oxo and vital documents (which esssentially can shut you down for a while)

but yeah you dont have to be ever found guilty of anything or even charged. the raid and the confiscation of vital materials and stuff screws with you enuff. Its best to keep a low profile

Originally Posted by DinnersReady

Umm....I bought them from your site when I was 16 and sold them to tards at my highschool for a healthy profit.

There are people who bought x-tren and bold for $10 by the hundreds that are selling them for $75 to $100.



NO ! Not me. . . Wish I had bought Bold back then.

Originally Posted by TheYoungBlood

There are people who bought x-tren and bold for $10 by the hundreds that are selling them for $75 to $100.

Time to do that with superdrol and p-stanz now.

Originally Posted by Jaberwaki

do as i say, not as i do!