Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 139

Adverse effects of Bulbine natalensis

This is a discussion on Adverse effects of Bulbine natalensis within the Supplement Discussion forums, part of the Supplements category; I'm going to be honest; I think it's incredibly ridiculous this herb has this much hype behind it. It seems ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    23
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    4308

    Adverse effects of Bulbine natalensis

    I'm going to be honest; I think it's incredibly ridiculous this herb has this much hype behind it. It seems you only need a convicted fellon and 2-3 shady salvia tests, to announce it's the best thing ever invented in the supplement industry. Props for Gaspari for doing an actual human trial.

    Now, what I'm really amazed is that the initial hype starter (mr. A. Roberts) and the companies selling this herb are drooling all over two rat studies but fail to mention this study* that clearly shows adverse effects of bulbine natalensis on triglycerides, cholesterol and haematological parameters.

    *
    http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream...%20283-288.pdf

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    SNS Rep em-dubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    3
    Posts
    1,197
    Rep Power
    18625
    I have been very apprehensive about Bulbine myself. The way its been introduced and the people behind...there's a lot to question
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Right Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,749
    Rep Power
    12138
    You tend to see that negative correlation with anything that increases testosterone though. So it's not terribly surprising imho. Having said that it probably has a lot of hype simply because there are 3 different studies showing test increases (not 2). And compare this to other popular test boosters (fadogia) for example and that means it has about 2 times the scientific support. If something increases test in humans pretty much everyone knows about it and it's all over the market quickly (daa for example).
    Advanced Muscle Science

    My Blog - Sponsored by AMS/FRL - advancedmusclescience.blogspot.com/



  4. #4
    Veteran Member Right Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,749
    Rep Power
    12138
    Anyways the inverted U curve makes me hesitant to think it's all that great until you can determine a way to accurately avoid that in humans. And calculating the HED is probably the best place to start, but it doesnt necessarily mean it will work.
    And I dont feel like having low test levels for a month or two trying to figure it out...
    Advanced Muscle Science

    My Blog - Sponsored by AMS/FRL - advancedmusclescience.blogspot.com/



  5. #5
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    this info has been out for a while actually...nothing new.


    noone on prolensis has noticed these effects. hopefully, the more bloodwork people post, the greater chance we have of it including lipid profiles
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  6. #6
    Veteran Member milas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    6041
    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    this info has been out for a while actually...nothing new.


    noone on prolensis has noticed these effects. hopefully, the more bloodwork people post, the greater chance we have of it including lipid profiles
    Were lipid profiles part of the alpha testing or original Prolensis studies? I think the alpha tests were saliva, so no lipids, but perhaps the Prolensis studies?

    I'm curious what was done to ensure safety in the way of testing for lipids?

    If this were used with PCT for something like Superdrol, or bridged into Superdrol, that could be bad for the consumer...
    Last edited by milas; 02-14-2011 at 01:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    23
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    4308
    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    this info has been out for a while actually...nothing new.


    noone on prolensis has noticed these effects. hopefully, the more bloodwork people post, the greater chance we have of it including lipid profiles
    No one noticed these effects?! You wouldn't even know it without the proper bloodwork.

    I think it's disgusting you bring this product to the market for HUMAN consumption while you're aware that there's at least one study showing negative side effects. If you guys had even a little moral responsibility you would do some HUMAN bloodwork to ensure there are no negative side effects in HUMAN subjects. No, instead you just magically *hope* some customer will do these for you. Actually you hope they don't, because there is a high chance the bloodwork wouldn't be too positive. Disgusting.

    Look, I'ma pretty progressive person regarding supplement laws, I even think all drugs should be legalized but there should be two major conditions; you either do the necessary safety analysis or you aware the consumer about the (potential) negative side effects of your product. In the last case it's the consumer's own personal responsiblity to take the gamble or not. But don't try to dupe potential consumers by claiming this herb is safe while there is a published study that raises a big red flag. You guys should really scratch yourself behind your ears and ask yourself what the hell you're doing. Either that or the FDA will crack everything down.

  8. #8
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Actually, I was referring to bloodwork conducted by the owners of ProLensis. We were concerned about potential liver and lipid issues prior to release, but our worries were unfounded after reviewing the testing done by Sldge.


    I am all for criticism of iForce, and any of our products. However when you come at me each and every time as if I'm a child molestor who deserves to be flogged and whipped, it makes it very challenging for me to want to discuss the situation even if I believe I am correct.

    If u have a question, I answer it...every time. Enough with the direct unfounded attacks on me personally.

  9. #9
    SNS Rep em-dubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    3
    Posts
    1,197
    Rep Power
    18625
    Actually, I was referring to bloodwork conducted by the owners of ProLensis. We were concerned about potential liver and lipid issues prior to release, but our worries were unfounded after reviewing the testing done by Sldge.





    I am all for criticism of iForce, and any of our products. However when you come at me each and every time as if I'm a child molestor who deserves to be flogged and whipped, it makes it very challenging for me to want to discuss the situation even if I believe I am correct.



    If u have a question, I answer it...every time. Enough with the direct unfounded attacks on me personally.
    So we are relying on the bloodwork done by the distributor of this ingred? I would think his may be bias , wouldn't you?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Right Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,749
    Rep Power
    12138
    Quote Originally Posted by em-dubya View Post
    So we are relying on the bloodwork done by the distributor of this ingred? I would think his may be bias , wouldn't you?
    There is always going to be bias in this industry tbh. You can't force someone to test this stuff....you can buy from them or pay them to test it but a bias would obviously still exist.
    Advanced Muscle Science

    My Blog - Sponsored by AMS/FRL - advancedmusclescience.blogspot.com/



  11. #11
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Em, your obvious distaste for Bulbine us apparent.


    Is it bc it competes with the "best test booster ever formulated" that CEL was supposed to release almost a year ago?

  12. #12
    SNS Rep em-dubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    3
    Posts
    1,197
    Rep Power
    18625
    Em, your obvious distaste for Bulbine us apparent.





    Is it bc it competes with the "best test booster ever formulated" that CEL was supposed to release almost a year ago?
    First of all , I'm not totally against bulbine however I do want to see a lot more proof than whats been put forward so far. I mean let's be honest this would not be the first harmful product this person has brought to the market. Now please show me where I've stated "CEL was releasing the best test booster formula ever"??? That sounds like every product you guys release. Perhaps if Iforce took a little more time and even did a little post production testing of your products then you would not have to "recrush caps " and reuse raws......which is in no way GMP compliant.
    Anyways game on now
    Last edited by em-dubya; 02-14-2011 at 05:28 PM.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time

  13. #13
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Quote Originally Posted by em-dubya View Post
    First of all , I'm not totally against bulbine however I do want to see a lot more proof that been put forward so far. I mean let's be honest this would be the first harmful product this person has brought to the market. Now please show me where I've stated "CEL was releasing the best test booster formula ever"??? That sounds like every product you guys release. Perhaps if Iforce took a little more time and even did a little post production testing of your products then you would not have to "recrush caps " and reuse raws......which is in no way GMP compliant.
    Anyways game on now
    Oh come on man, it was a jest but you know you were talking some biiiiig game about a year ago about the "new line" of CEL non-hormonals coming out.

    Who are you referring to in regards to the bold? I am not understanding what you mean(srs)



    In regards to the Fadogia-500, believe you me when I say it was done by GMP methods. That mistake is not something we or our lawyers took lightly. It was a really unfortunate situation that should never have happened, but I honestly believe myself and iForce handled it better than any company who has had a similar issue in the past.


    How long did it take CEL to admit the M1,4ADD was DHEA? How many posts did CEL reps make claiming it was 100% legit until a couple of months later when the truth came out?


    We messed up. We admitted it and did/are doing our best to make it up. Can't really ask much more of a company than that.
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  14. #14
    SNS Rep em-dubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    3
    Posts
    1,197
    Rep Power
    18625
    Hmmm.....CEL did address the M14ad issue as soon as PA brought it to their attention. I'm not sure what you are talking about when you claim the CeL reps ignoring the "complaints" because during that time there were no CEL reps. I was brought in with the very first group of reps and that was a couple months after the m14ad recall
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time

  15. #15
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    I seem to remember quite a few people assuring the boards that it was "good to go" and not to worry.

    Regardless, u and I are in a pissing match. You attack me for a product being dosed improperly, and I can sling the same mud as BOTH of our companies have been through the same issue.


    Does it REALLY need to continue? I'm tired. You win, ok?

  16. #16
    Veteran Member milas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,108
    Rep Power
    6041
    Quote Originally Posted by milas View Post
    Were lipid profiles part of the alpha testing or original Prolensis studies? I think the alpha tests were saliva, so no lipids, but perhaps the Prolensis studies?

    I'm curious what was done to ensure safety in the way of testing for lipids?

    If this were used with PCT for something like Superdrol, or bridged into Superdrol, that could be bad for the consumer...
    Can we keep this to the topic on hand, Bulbine Natalensis, and not get personal/company pissing matches?

    Vaughn, can you answer my question above. Did Sldge/Prolensis do any blood work on lipids?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    23
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    4308
    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Actually, I was referring to bloodwork conducted by the owners of ProLensis. We were concerned about potential liver and lipid issues prior to release, but our worries were unfounded after reviewing the testing done by Sldge.
    Ok, can I ask what the exact results were, what doses were used, how many subjects and what parameters were tested? And why isn't wasn't this testing pubicly revealed?
    I mean everytime a supplement company has positive blood work they don't hesitate to publish it. Everybody can say they did all the testing possible, but without substantiating this with the actual bloodwork it's a empty phrase. And not to bring moredrama, but it wouldn't be the first time the owner(s) of Prolensis did some very shady shit. Why do I even have to bring the obvious?

    I am all for criticism of iForce, and any of our products. However when you come at me each and every time as if I'm a child molestor who deserves to be flogged and whipped, it makes it very challenging for me to want to discuss the situation even if I believe I am correct.
    If u have a question, I answer it...every time. Enough with the direct unfounded attacks on me personally.
    I never attacked you or your charactar. At least not without substantiating myself. In another topic I merely posted facts pertaining you and I-force (which you wisely ignored btw). It's not my intention to bring you are your character down, but if I see shady stuff I call you out.

    Vaugn, I've read many of your critisicm pertaining other companies. Most of the time I agree wholeheartedly, but it seems when something is pertaining to I-Force you have double standards. I understand the financial bias, but that doesn't mean I can't call you out.

  18. #18
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Quote Originally Posted by angelbolic View Post
    Ok, can I ask what the exact results were, what doses were used, how many subjects and what parameters were tested? And why isn't wasn't this testing pubicly revealed?
    I mean everytime a supplement company has positive blood work they don't hesitate to publish it. Everybody can say they did all the testing possible, but without substantiating this with the actual bloodwork it's a empty phrase. And not to bring moredrama, but it wouldn't be the first time the owner(s) of Prolensis did some very shady shit. Why do I even have to bring the obvious?



    I never attacked you or your charactar. At least not without substantiating myself. In another topic I merely posted facts pertaining you and I-force (which you wisely ignored btw). It's not my intention to bring you are your character down, but if I see shady stuff I call you out.

    Vaugn, I've read many of your critisicm pertaining other companies. Most of the time I agree wholeheartedly, but it seems when something is pertaining to I-Force you have double standards. I understand the financial bias, but that doesn't mean I can't call you out.

    I'll give Sldge a call, and see what I can post/get him to post.




    As I said, I really have no issue with you questioning me/iForce. I am not iForce, simply a fan and long time employee. If iForce is doing something that appears shady, by all means please address it with me/us, as it is the last thing we aim to do. Our entire goal is simply to make the best supplements we can and to offer them for the best prices we can. We have no desire to rip people off and steal their money. We believe in doing our best to have customers return to us, and not simply capitalize on "first time buyers" like many companies out there.

    I remember the post you're referencing, and to be honest I disagreed with a lot of it, but I just don't have the energy to argue with so many people any more. Maybe I'm getting old. Either way, all I know is that iForce has yet to produce a product that the majority of people didn't love. We get a ton of flack upon each product release, but I've gotten used to it by now. People told us Reversitol wouldn't work, but it did. People said Dymethazine was simply going to be SD, but it wasn't. People said Protodrol would suck, yet BOOM went the dynamite. HemaVol got a ton of criticism as did Mxv2 and people love those. To be honest, I think we have a pretty darn good track record for producing hardcore/awesome products, and will continue to do so.

    I apologize if you believe I think I or iForce is above criticism, as we are not. We should be able to back up our products and do our best to do so. Unfortunately, we don't have the same amount of $ as some larger companies(Gaspari is doing some really impressive stuff as of late with the clinicals), but hope to one day be in that group so we can provide answers to 100% of all questions posed to us on our ingredients and whole products.


    iForce is actually working hard to release a slew of new products that are out of our "norm". No "uber cool" new ingredients, no "insane" claims, just really good products dirt cheap. Even Dexaprine which is in the "xtreme" series is an example of this. No new undiscovered herbs, just 6 ingredients that we KNOW work, and a lot of them lol.


    I really hope in the future iForce is able to convince you that everything we're doing is both to succeed as a business, and to provide everyone with the best products possible.
    Last edited by VaughnTrue; 02-14-2011 at 02:01 PM.
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    23
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    4308
    Professional response Vaugn, respect for it.

    I believe you guys want to bring the best products to the market. First and foremost for financial gain. That is how businesses do um business afterall. But in this industry quality and safety assurance is many times terrible. I understand it would be much harder for you to do clinicals (although I don't believe you woud do one hadn't you got a fine), but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to establish them. Much less rigorous, but 2 salvia test on border line low subjects is another extreme. Why not follow the example of DS and do a dozen blood works and everyone will be convinced your product works? Even I-Force can afford that very easily.

    Well, maybe it's better you post these results right now because in short notice this will probably get published on ergo-log. It will flood the boards very quickly.

    Sometimes you get critisicm while in the end your product is awesome. But that doesn't mean the critisicm is incorrect. If it turns out bulbine is safe& effective in human subjects, that would be awesome, but my initial critisicm was correct because a lack of data.

  20. #20
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Quote Originally Posted by angelbolic View Post
    Professional response Vaugn, respect for it.

    I believe you guys want to bring the best products to the market. First and foremost for financial gain. That is how businesses do um business afterall. But in this industry quality and safety assurance is many times terrible. I understand it would be much harder for you to do clinicals (although I don't believe you woud do one hadn't you got a fine), but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to establish them. Much less rigorous, but 2 salvia test on border line low subjects is another extreme. Why not follow the example of DS and do a dozen blood works and everyone will be convinced your product works? Even I-Force can afford that very easily.

    Well, maybe it's better you post these results right now because in short notice this will probably get published on ergo-log. It will flood the boards very quickly.

    Sometimes you get critisicm while in the end your product is awesome. But that doesn't mean the critisicm is incorrect. If it turns out bulbine is safe& effective in human subjects, that would be awesome, but my initial critisicm was correct because a lack of data.
    Great post and valid questions.

    iForce has never done as much testing on a product as we did with Tropinol, so we are doing our best to "get with the times" and give our users exactly what they request/demand. You are correct to think that had we not had the run in the the FDA that we did, that we would have the time/money to do some much more serious testing on our products. We took a big hit, and it hurt. However, we have emerged as a stronger and more unified company that will not make the same mistake twice.

    I am working on trying to get as many bloodworks done on Tropinol as possible, however the main reason we haven't done 10-15 blood assays for everyone is due to the common belief that "sponsored" blood work is useless. I disagree, however many people truly believe it. In the end, even if I posted 100 INSANELY impressive blood assays, there will be 10 people who scoff for every 1 person who says "wow thanks!".



    Myself and iForce will continue to improve upon our products and our testing methods with the release of each and every product.
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    23
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    4308
    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    I am working on trying to get as many bloodworks done on Tropinol as possible, however the main reason we haven't done 10-15 blood assays for everyone is due to the common belief that "sponsored" blood work is useless. I disagree, however many people truly believe it. In the end, even if I posted 100 INSANELY impressive blood assays, there will be 10 people who scoff for every 1 person who says "wow thanks!".
    IIRC all/most of DS's testing was sponsored too. As long as you pick 'real' and respectable members you'll get tremendous respect. DS got out of nowhere at the 30th place on bb.com's brand list.

    If you do it properly almost everyone will be convinced your product works (at least the test boosting part) and the people who are still in denial are, well, just a bunch of haters.

  22. #22
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Quote Originally Posted by angelbolic View Post
    IIRC all/most of DS's testing was sponsored too. As long as you pick 'real' and respectable members you'll get tremendous respect. DS got out of nowhere at the 30th place on bb.com's brand list.

    If you do it properly almost everyone will be convinced your product works (at least the test boosting part) and the people who are still in denial are, well, just a bunch of haters.
    so...u wanna run Tropinol?
    iForce Nutrition Representative

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    23
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    4308
    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    so...u wanna run Tropinol?
    Thanks for your offer, but I:
    a: am still not convinced it's safe/effective
    b: don't feel like being a 'laboratory rat' (no offense)
    c: don't like the idea of being required to open and update a log. I've never applicated to or run a sponsored log.

    But if in the end you can convince me of the safety and effectivity of your product I'll happily buy some myself.

  24. #24
    SNS Rep em-dubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    3
    Posts
    1,197
    Rep Power
    18625
    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Oh come on man, it was a jest but you know you were talking some biiiiig game about a year ago about the "new line" of CEL non-hormonals coming out.

    Who are you referring to in regards to the bold? I am not understanding what you mean(srs)


    .
    Well lets see ...how many people do you know have served jail time for selling misbranded /dangerous products?????????????????????????????????????????? ??
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time

  25. #25
    Moderator VaughnTrue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,321
    Rep Power
    501335
    Quote Originally Posted by em-dubya View Post
    Well lets see ...how many people do you know have served jail time for selling misbranded /dangerous products?????????????????????????????????????????? ??
    whoa thats a lot of question marks.


    I really don't follow every person in the industry closely, and I'm horrible with names. I assumed you were referring to AR since he likes both bulbine + fadogia, but the way you worded this post I'm assuming PA?(srs i have no idea what you're trying to say here)
    iForce Nutrition Representative

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

More Related Threads to Visit

  1. Curious Kre-Alkalyn Effects
    By Just99 in forum Supplement Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-27-2010, 11:19 AM
  2. Bulbine Natanlensis
    By Grambo in forum Supplement Discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-30-2010, 09:59 PM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-18-2010, 11:06 AM
  4. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 05-12-2010, 10:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •